The Working REALTOR®: Building Long-Term Community in a Short-Term Stay

Jesse Robertson: From flash to bang, five to seven days to land on the ground and leave with an accepted offer, inspections done, all of that. 

Shaun Majumder: What? Yes, of course-- 

Ali Worsfold: Small towns, you know? I had my wild 20 years-- 

Shaun: Welcome to Rossland. Have you met the queen of Rossland? 

Ali: All hail-- 

Dame Linda Pinizzotto: Okay. 

Shaun: You know, being a host of REAL TIME, I've learned so much about all aspects of real estate, but today, we're going to talk about something very specific: niche markets in real estate. With those niche markets come very specific niche REALTORS®. Today on the show, we're going to be talking with Jesse Robertson, who deals specifically in the military world, and our amazing military having to relocate, how do they find houses? How do they find accommodations, and what kind of time frame do they have to deal with? Then we're going to be talking to Ali Worsfold, who works in the vacation rental/purchasing market out west in beautiful British Columbia. Then we're going to be talking to Dame Linda Pinizzotto. She is-- Yes, she is a dame. She has been knighted, and she works with athletes, and sometimes movie stars. 

You guys all represent very specific groups in the game of real estate. You guys are all dealing with and working with niche clients, and I want to talk about that today, because that's something that gets really down into the details, and I love it. Thank you so much for coming on today. Why don't we start by going around the table, if you will, and telling us what your niche is and how you got into it. Why don't we start by-- Well, first of all, I think we have to give the lead to Dame Linda, who actually, I found out, you have been knighted. I mean, I ain't going to mess with you. I ain't going to mess with you. 

Ali: She gets to go first all the time. 

Jesse: That's right. 

Shaun: Yes, everything-- 

Ali: All hail-- 

Shaun: Dame Linda. First of all, tell me about that. How did you get knighted? Like, that's amazing. 

Linda: In March of 2010, I felt that the Condominium Act, the provincial legislation was wrong, and it hadn't been updated since 1998. I made the decision to create the Condo Owners Association of Ontario, and I challenged the provincial government, the McGuinty government. It took two years for them to open up a review, I sat in all the stages of the review-- It is a nonprofit, I funded it from day one. By 2015/2016, I ended up finally getting our wish-- property management companies had to be licensed. I decided at three o'clock in the morning, I woke up, and my husband said to me, "What are you doing?" 

I said, "I'm going to start a nonprofit." 

He's like, "Go back to sleep." 

I said, "You know what? This is really important." 

I was government relations chair for eight years for the Real Estate Board, and vice president, and I got to go to Parliament Hill, Queen's Park, and so on. Anyway, as a result of all those initiatives, the military came along, the Order of St. George, and I was knighted as a Dame of the Order. 

Shaun: We are honored to have you at our table, Dame Linda. Tell me about your niche. You've done amazing things. You are now a part of the Jedi Council as well. Tell me about your niche and what you focus on right now in the Toronto market, and probably beyond, but let's start there. 

Linda: Well, my niche is pretty much diversified. I have actually entered every market you can imagine. I'm flexible, honestly. All of my business is referrals and people that I've met and worked with over the years. 

Shaun: You also are very specific with athletes, right? Working with athletes, bringing them into town, helping them find new places, and I'm sure you work with entertainment people as well. Tell me a bit about that market. 

Linda: Okay. This is a really weird, crazy story, how it came about. I used to be with Eleanor Fulchers when I was a teenager. I was into modeling, and then I added real estate into the picture when I was 19. Interestingly enough, in 2000, what happened was Eleanor Fulcher called me and asked me to go to IMTA, International Model, in order to perform, which was in Hollywood, and it was amazing. I actually won three out of six competitions, and when I came back, I got invited everywhere under the sun. And so this whole new life of the Downtown Core started to be coming into play, because I was-- You know, Kelvim Escobar, I met him at his birthday party, for instance. 

From there, it went to the different teams, and different developers, and whatnot, and then I was buying the condos. So, the market kind of switched from being this mom who had all her kids in hockey here in Mississauga, and of course AAA, high-level hockey and junior hockey, into being Linda-- Not Linda Pinizzotto, Linda the REALTOR^®, you know? I had these multiple hats, and it was-- Yes, it's word of mouth, so once you get into the sports world, it pretty much continues. I got into the media world, they started knowing more about me, the COA pushed things even further. With the athletes, it's pretty exciting. A very close friend of mine, actually, Susan Stewart, she ended up-- she was in the Olympics. So, yes, it's kind of like you get a snowball, and it's a tiny little snowball. All of a sudden, it starts rolling and growing and growing. Next thing you know, you look back and you think, "Wow, how did that happen?" 

Shaun: Which teams do you work with now? 

Linda: That's the interesting part, because with the teams, we're locally. Most of the time, it's the Jays and the Leafs and the Raptors, but local, because they're looking for local accommodations. Believe it or not, I was involved with Wisconsin way back when, helping one of the-- because I know a lot of the scouts as well. But the level of things have changed. Like, they switch all around, if you know what I mean. Because in the sports world, you get your first round picks, and your second rounds, and thirds, and fourths. Like I said, there's a whole internal story on sports that a lot of people don't totally understand in the way it all manifests itself as far as the income levels, so depending on the income levels is the key. That's why the diversity of where they're going to stay and whether or not they have family-- do you see what I mean? Some athletes, believe it or not, get married very young. Other ones don't. 

But that opened another door, because what happened is when athletes left their system and came back home, they're not actively playing anymore, but they are in the world. Until they can get organized with permanent housing, they need short-term housing. 

Shaun: Right. That sounds amazing. You're dealing with multi-level, different incomes, different locations, all these different demographics. It sounds wild and complex, and I love that. We'll come back to that. Let's go on to Ali. Ali, you are not yet knighted, but you will one day. I'm very confident about this. 

Ali: I can't believe I have to follow that. 

Shaun: I know, right? 

Ali: I'm eight months in, okay? 

Shaun: So, you're fresh-- Like, you're fresh into the market. 

Ali: I just started, yes. 

Shaun: Amazing. Welcome. 

Ali: Thank you. 

Shaun: I'm not even a part of-- this is the only thing-- I bought houses, but I'm also now a podcast guy with you. So, tell me more. You're now in that market, but what is your specific niche in terms of the clients you deal with and the market you deal with? 

Ali: We're based out of a small brokerage in Rossland, British Columbia, so it's kind of in the southern interior of BC. We're right on the USA border, we're right on the border with Washington State, so for us, because we're also home to the fourth largest ski resort in Canada, as you can imagine, it's just-- businesses bustling up there right now, it's crazy. For me, the niche that I've fallen into is selling these vacation properties. Also, another thing that fell onto my plate when I started real estate is short-term rental property management. That was something that fell onto my plate basically as soon as I joined this brokerage. It was an opportunity that I couldn't pass up because, as you know, as a new REALTOR^®, you're not really making money for a while. Like, it's a grind, and I have a son, and I have bills to pay, too. Also, not only just that, but it's just such good experience. 

Honestly, throughout this last winter, all I was doing was basically short-term rental property management. It is so busy up here in the winters, and as I mentioned, it's just so good for my real estate career as well. So, meeting new people, learning the ins and outs of these homes, learning so much because, to be honest, going into real estate, I really didn't know that much. 

Shaun: Right. Well, what came first? The management, or the actual buying and selling, the real estate side? 

Ali: The real estate. I took my course, so I became licensed in BC. That's through UBC Sauder School of Business. I did all of that. I worked in local government before for about 13 years. I worked for the City of Rossland for seven years, I worked for the City of New Westminster for two and a half years, very fresh out of high school, like 19, till I was 32. Having that experience also helps in real estate, for sure. But then it was always in the back of my mind to get into something different, because I'm not a 9:00 to 5:00 office kind of gal, especially living where I live. I want to go biking, I want to go skiing, I want to go hiking. I don't want to sit in an office 9:00 to 5:00, Monday to Friday. Now I just work seven days a week, so-- 

Shaun: That's amazing. 

Ali: Now it's just all the time. 

Shaun: Yes, and I love that. What a better way to learn the ins and outs by immersing in every individual property. I mean, you've got to manage these properties, it just makes you-- on the foundation level, you know everything. 

Ali: Totally. 

Shaun: That's amazing. 

Ali: I was born and raised here too, so I know everyone-- 

Shaun: Oh, come on. 

Ali: Yes. Rossland's a small town of about 4,000 people, so I basically know everyone, which can be good and bad. 

Shaun: Yes, of course. 

Ali: Small towns, you know? I had my wild 20 years, but-- 

Shaun: Welcome to Rossland. Have you met the queen of Rossland? 

Ali: All hail-- 

Ali: So, good and bad. You know, we all have our moments in our 20s and whatever else- 

Shaun: Yes, of course. That's hilarious. 

Ali: -but mostly, it's been really good. The community support has been unreal, so yes, I'm just grateful. Like I said, I'm very grateful to have had the short-term rental property management opportunity fall on my lap because it's made me busy and it's given me a lot of learning opportunities, so-- Yes, it's been good. 

Shaun: That's great. We're going to dig down deeper and talk about community and all that kind of stuff, but let's move on to Jesse. Jesse, what's your niche, and are we going to go to the moon together, you and I? 

Jesse: Shaun, I would love to. Yes, I would totally be up for whatever, but-- Yes, I'm a military veteran, so my previous life before I got into real estate was in the Canadian Armed Forces. 

Shaun: Thank you for your service. Yay-- 

Jesse: My pleasure, Shaun. It was a cool job. I was very honored to wear the flag on my sleeve. I deployed three times, went to Afghanistan once, went to Iraq twice, and in a lot of different capabilities. Amazing experience, no regrets. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It definitely helped form who I am now, and gave you a frame of reference on what actually a bad day looks like. 

Shaun: What was your specialty? What was your job, if you don't mind me asking? 

Jesse: Yes. I was posted to Petawawa my first five or six years I was in the military, so in the Ottawa Valley. Paratrooper, so I jumped out of planes, did recce, reconnaissance stuff. Definitely challenged myself and put my hand up for all the courses, and wasn't too scared of a challenge, so-- Loved it, met a ton of awesome people, then deployed to Afghanistan in 2010. Came back from that and bought my first house up in Petawawa, and that was kind of what started. I was 30 years old when I bought my first one, and then I just kept going on to courses and doing more training and more qualifications in the military. 

I ended up trying out for human intelligence, which was a plain clothes, behind-the-scenes type unit in Kingston, Ontario. That got me posted down to Kingston, and I loved it. I did two tours in that capability to the Middle East. Amazing experiences as well, just very different, and my back-- just from wear and tear over the years, my back was not the best. I was popping 16 Advils a day just to get through the day, and so-- 

Shaun: Oh, my goodness. 

Jesse: You know, at 37, 38 years old-- not old, but then you're just kind of like, "At what cost? What am I doing this for?" I was already flipping houses between tours to supplement some income, and also, it just was a passion of mine already, and-- 

Shaun: That's awesome. 

Jesse: Yes. I had my retirement party on the Friday from the military, and everybody sent me off, which ended up being a pretty wild night. Then on the Monday, battling a bit of a hangover from that weekend on Monday morning, suit and tie, day one at RE/MAX Finest Realty in Kingston, Ontario. 

Shaun: And here you are. 

Jesse: And here I am. Super steep learning curve right away, but definitely, just the network you build up in the military of people that you trust and work alongside and cheer for-- the veteran community across the country is quite supportive, and everybody wants to see veterans who venture out after their service succeed. I would say that just leaning on that network initially helped a huge amount. Just so grateful for everybody in the military who reached out, now that I was into real estate, to trust that I had their best interests in mind. It's been awesome. 

Shaun: Working directly with veterans, working directly with military to help find housing for them? Is that-- 

Jesse: That's what I kind of-- I broke into that market, and just being that veteran has helped with that. Yes, so now my specialty, I would say probably 75% to 80% of my business a year are government relocations for military members who are posted into or out of Kingston, because promotions and different jobs all kind of come with, "Hey, if you want to be a colonel, you have to go to Ottawa for two years," or "If you want to be a commander, you have to do this job." That requires sometimes families to relocate across the country, or even outside into the States or Europe, so I help a lot of people come from-- they call them OUTCANs all over Europe, if they're coming to, or vice versa. That, I would say, is my specialty, and I love every second of it. It definitely comes with a ton of challenges, but it's been excellent. 

Shaun: That's amazing, man. What a great story, but you're not a knight. 

Jesse: No, not at all. 

Shaun: I'm just saying-- I'm going to let Linda have that flex. 

Jesse: Linda's a legend. 

Shaun: A legend, yes. 

Jesse: No, nowhere close. Yes. 

Linda: Thank you. 

Shaun: Linda, let's come back to you now. I want to talk a bit about just this idea of the challenges of short-term, knowing that these people are coming in short-term. What challenges does that pose for you as you're looking and thinking about beginning to the end game? Let's talk a bit about that. 

Linda: To be honest with you, after all this time, it's really easy-peasy. It's kind of like, right at the beginning, you've got to know exactly what their needs are. They don't want to be traveling across the city to go get anywhere. Even some of the players that are coming in to be drafted, by the way, I've actually looked after them as well, and their families, their parents that are coming in because they are going to be drafted. 

Shaun: Yes. Tell me about that. I want to hear more about that. I want to hear more about that example of somebody-- Is there a real-world story of somebody who came in, and-- Because you're not just dealing with one prospective player, but you're dealing with their family-- 

Linda: Right. Exactly. 

Shaun: That's amazing to me. Talk to me about that. 

Linda: I'll pinpoint one, the Nylanders. I was introduced to the Nylanders because, of course, all three of my sons got into pro hockey. They just moved up the ladder, so that opened another door again. What happened was I was introduced to the parents, and they needed accommodations because, of course, their son is going to get drafted. Now, the key thing is, their daughter is into tennis. Now, a former Olympian tennis player is a client of mine, and she actually rented one of my properties, and she was going to now be the tennis instructor for his daughter. It's so crazy how things work out. 

The other key thing was to stay safe and close by to where the exhibition grounds are, because of practices, and this and that, and so on. Because, of course, he's still playing at that level. He hadn't been drafted, and as you know his name and so on, he's done extremely well, had a phenomenal career today. What happens is that you don't always have that. It really depends on how that door opens up within an organization, regardless of which sport it is. It can move around from whether or not-- In baseball, it's the base coaches, it can be the manager. Do you know what I mean? It can be the coaching staff, or it can be the actual player, so it's not always necessarily the player. Again, it goes with their needs, and their needs are extremely important, because they're only actually going to be in these properties a very limited time because they're off traveling quite consistently. 

Shaun: Right. So, do they come back-- If they're going to come back for the next season, for example, what kind of time frame are we talking about? Are they in for six months? Is it an eight-month contract? Is it a year, and then they just kind of say, "Oh, well, I'll keep that place till I come back next season"? How does that work? 

Linda: They don't really keep their place. When O-Dog got his, it was funny, it was actually a listing that I had-- 

Shaun: Who's O-Dog? 

Linda: Orlando Hudson.  

Jesse: Orlando Hudson, yes. 

Linda: Orlando Hudson, yes. He's a character. Oh my God.. 

Shaun: I love that. 

Jesse: He was a good ball player too. 

Linda: Oh, heck of a starting baseman. Amazing, yes. He was ideal, because honestly, he would set me up for tickets anywhere. Before you know it, I was getting tickets to go to this thing, and that thing, and here, and there, and whatever else. It was awesome. 

Shaun: I love it. 

Ali: That's amazing. 

Linda: Yes, he was pretty cool, and his wife and kids, wonderful. I got to meet the entire family. It really depends on how private the athlete is, because everybody has a different temperament. Some of them love to be out there, and they'll sign the minute they come out all the time, no problem. Where is everybody? Where are the kids? Let me sign for them immediately. 

Shaun: It's not like location-- You know, you hear about location, location, location. Obviously, I'm thinking, if you're going to be Downtown Core, most of the athletes or staff, do they want to be close to the venues of their work? Or do they want to be a little bit outside, to understand that they don't want to be in the cluster? What's the general approach? 

Linda: It depends on the buildings. The buildings are extremely important, because you can have a cluster of buildings in the main core, which would put you, say, from Spadina over to Blue Jay's Way. Then you have what's called the CityPlace, which is just south of there. There's no comparison between that when you're talking about, for instance, the Element, or the Icon, or those buildings, you see? That tends to be really important. They seem to want to be more in a more of an upscale, quieter kind of a surrounding, versus the club district type of a momentum, yes. 

Shaun: Even the younger cats, the new recruits? They all want to be-- 

Linda: Well, years ago, they used to like to hang out at System Soundbar and shmooze. 

Shaun: Oh, I loved System-- 

Linda: I'm throwing these out because you probably know Easy & the Fifth-- 

Shaun: I do. Ali talked about, "Oh, yes, you know, in the 20s, whatever, we had some things like that." Those were my experiences at System Soundbar. Anyway, I digress  

Ali: Sounds like a fun time. 

Shaun: Oh, it was amazing. Ali, talk a bit about the challenges of the short-term, or is that a blessing for you? I mean, it's almost like you know you're going to turn them over, the short-term rentals, but then you also have the vacation purchasers. Talk a bit about that, and the challenges of that. 

Ali: When it comes to short-term vacation rentals, people are checking out our website. We have a plethora of photos for every single unit that we're renting out, we have all the descriptions updated, all the information in those listings, so people are able to make an informed decision when they're making their bookings. I guess the one difficult thing is with our area, because we are pretty much in the middle of nowhere. The closest international airport to us is Spokane, which is two and a half hours away in Washington, so we're not super close to an international airport. 

We are a bit in the middle of nowhere, and so when it comes to transportation, that's definitely something that we want to communicate with people. Especially if they're coming from Europe or somewhere far away, and they've never been to RED before, just to kind of give them a heads up. Like, "Hey, transportation here isn't great. You're probably going to shuttle in from the airport in Spokane, and then you're going to have to typically be able to find your way around." There is a ski shuttle now in the winter, thankfully, that we have from RED Resort into the town of Rossland. But if you're coming in the summer months to bike-- By the way, we just opened up a new bike park last summer, which is amazing, but to date, we still don't have a shuttle from RED ito town in the summer. It's just one of those typical small-town area things, where it's like you can't just usually call up a cab even. Like, we have a cab, but sometimes it doesn't show up. 

Shaun: Sometimes Frank is busy. Sometimes Frank is busy. 

Ali: It's small here, right. 

Shaun: Sometimes Frank is busy. 

Ali: Totally. 

Shaun: Okay, so those are rentals, but who owns those rentals? Let's talk about that. The purchaser of that, and you finding the right people that-- Is it high demand, and what are the numbers like? What's the inventory like? 

Ali: Right now, we're actually in the beginning phases of huge development at RED Resort. A building was just constructed, it has 102 units. That was completed in 2024, and they are studio, loft, and one-bedroom units. I actually own one of them. It is right at the base of RED Resort, and most of the buyers are American. Like I mentioned, we are two hours from Spokane, Washington, so with the strong US dollar on our side, we are just flooded with people from Washington, from Idaho, from California, even out East. It's beneficial for both the real estate market for us as REALTORS^®, and also for the short-term vacation rental market, because people are coming up and vacationing, and it's at a discount to them. Same with purchasing. You're buying a $350,000 studio suite Canadian, and that's $250,000 US. 

Shaun: Getting back to the people that you deal with, the clients, 80% of your clients are military-- 

Jesse: Yes. 

Shaun: Talk to me about that. Give me some scenarios of where you might have somebody who is overseas, they're returning, or they get transferred. Talk to me a bit about that, and some of the challenges you see with short-term. Because a lot of people don't know how long they're going to be in Kingston, or Petawawa, or anywhere, so talk about that. What are those challenges, and how do you manage those challenges? 

Jesse: Yes, great question. I would say-- An example, I got a call on the weekend from a family over in Europe, and they just got kind of an emergency-- Well, not an emergency, but it just got known to them that they are now posted back to Kingston this posting season, and so very little time to react. I would say right off the bat, that would be their first hurdle, is you're doing an international move on a very, very short timeline, and you have to report for duty here in July. That's a lot, especially when you're talking about kids, schools, moving. All your goods and effects are going to be in a sea can coming across on a boat for six weeks, so you're not even going to have any goods and effects. You'll be in a hotel for a month and a half until your stuff actually arrives. 

Buying vehicles is going to be a thing, getting the kids set up for school, camps, any of that in the summer will be a thing. Budget-- A lot of the times when people go in the States or Europe, they're there renting. They're not there to buy, so they have saved up some money. So it's a little bit better situation for them when they come back on a house hunting trip to actually purchase. However, sometimes if somebody's coming from Petawawa, which is a very small market, the average price may be $350,000 to $400,000 for a house there. They come to Kingston, or worse, Toronto or Ottawa, where the mean is a little bit higher, that can absolutely affect, A, what their expectations are, what they can afford. What they have in their mind of, "Oh, I want the white picket fence house." 

If you're getting posted from Petawawa to Toronto, it's going to be a very, very different market that you're entering, and you're going the wrong direction. If you're selling in Ottawa, Kingston, or Toronto, and you're going to Petawawa as an example, you're in a really good position, because you're going from a big market to a small. I would say budget, timeline, expectations, all of those things are hurdles that-- You know, just the extra stuff to navigate, but I would say the tight timeline is probably the biggest. 

Shaun: What kind of timeline are you talking? You said July, for example, these families in Europe, they've got to make that transition. Are there any limits that is given to you by the military, for example, to say, "Okay, when they're here, they have to find a house," and how many days are they given? Is that dictated, or is that just a consequence of the fact that they have to be posted and ready to go by X date? 

Jesse: Yes. What will happen is either/or. Like, say I have a client here in Kingston that I brought them in a couple of years ago, and they've just got a call from their career manager saying that they're going to be promoted and posted. Then they call me up and say, "Hey, Jess, I just had a call. Oh, my gosh, I think we have to sell this spring." I would go give them a quick evaluation, tell them everything to do to prep their house to maximize a quick sale for top-dollar. Make a plan with them, a very detailed plan on when everything is going to happen. 

The biggest thing there is, they can't go on their house hunting trip, which lasts about five to seven days for them to go-- The government pays for them to fly to the different city, have from flash to bang, five to seven days to land on the ground and leave with an accepted offer, inspection done, all of that. 

Shaun: What? 

Jesse: That's the gold standard, so it is a pretty tight timeline, and the planning and the preparation is critical to make that a successful operation. If you don't do that, then you're going into day four and five chasing your tail, still trying to look at more houses, and it's not a fun position to be in. That happened to me a couple of times early in my career where I didn't have as many house hunting trips or relocations under my belt, where one spouse-- maybe it's a military couple, and one wants to live in the country, and the other wants to live in a condo downtown, and they love the pedestrian lifestyle. You say, "Okay, I'll play this game for 48 hours." You show them a bunch of rural beautiful properties, and then you show them some awesome condos down by the lake where they're all close to the restaurants, pubs, and beautiful downtown Kingston. By day three, they're still butting heads, and you're like, "Guys, we only have 48 hours to do something here." 

I would say that timeline-- You're trying to get everybody on the same page as quickly as possible. You work for them, so at the end of the day, they are ultimately the client. They have to make the decisions, and they have to be able to live with them. Resale is a big thing, where if they're emotionally getting a little bit exploited because somebody has staged their house so beautifully, but you know it's going to be a nightmare to sell in three years when they get posted again. It's always something just to have that sober second opinion and be like, "Guys, I know that wallpaper is awesome, and those quartz countertops are stunning, but it's on a main street here. There's no backyard, and the layout is not super awesome, so just keep that in mind. That's why it's been on for 112 days. They've had a nightmare selling it, you guys might be facing the same sort of obstacle in three years if you get posted again." So just that resale factor is critical. Just a lot to take in-- 

Shaun: That is pressure. That is insane. There should be a TV show about it, like a reality show about that. 

Jesse: Oh, I've had some good ones, Shaun. It would be fun, yes. 

Shaun: Dude-- Like, you come in that hot, and I have to make that decision. I know whenever I buy a house or-- I've only bought two-- I've been in the process of buying three houses. My first house in LA, and then I moved up to a different house in LA, and then I bought a house in Nova Scotia, but each time-- Dude, the first house was like, we were a year looking. You know what I mean? We wanted to take our time, make sure it was the right place, but your clients don't have that luxury. I imagine they also calculate-- They know, "Okay, this is a unique situation. We know we may not get-- This isn't our retirement home, this is our transitional home," so there might be some settling involved in that, right? 

Jesse: Yes, and that's a great point. I always say that, and that would be one of my first questions: "Guys, what is the intent here? Where are you in your stage of your career right now?" If this is kind of like that last posting, and your intent is to stay here in Kingston, okay, well, then that widens the arc a little bit where it's a little more forgiving. If they want to spend a little bit more, or they want to risk a little bit more, or they want to live 25 minutes north of town and have a little more acreage, got it, because you're not necessarily-- You're still looking at resale, but it's not going to be as critical. If they're in the middle of their career, and they're a sergeant, and they're going to get promoted in two years and be gone, that's where I'd be like, "Guys, I know you don't want to be in town, but there's a couple of neighborhoods sort of close to base and downtown and schools and amenities." 

That is going to be a really-- not an easy sell, but it's just going to be a lot easier way for you to make some money, offload it, because you need that to happen fairly efficiently to be able to book your house hunting trip. If you want to buy something that sits, sits, sits, you can't go and book your house hunting trip and go and buy something else until we firm this up. That's just the other consideration. Because now you're going out to the new city, going and looking at seven houses in the first day, and you have to have a tight-- you know, to line up with a July 15th closing type thing. There's a lot of dominos that have to fall, which-- like you said, some pressure, but the more you do it, you get it down to a well-oiled machine. I have a ton of support here at the brokerage, I also have the best assistant ever. If I didn't have some of that support behind the scenes, I'd barely be able to tread water, to be honest. 

Shaun: I would also imagine that that kind of pressure and that time restraint also lights a bit of a fire and makes people make decisions quickly because they're forced to, but sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes they're just not overthinking, and it's just like, "Okay, no, this is--" I bet you haven't had many clients who've gone back later and been like, "Oh, we got rushed, and now I regret everything," right? My flag would be, I would bet that you do not see a lot of that. 

Jesse: No, I definitely-- Like, I don't do a ton of benches and buses and stuff like that where I'm paying for a ton of advertising. I would say the majority of my business does come from word of mouth and referrals. Just like Linda's world-- a totally different situation, but if she hits a home run for O-Dog or for one of these awesome players, they are going to tell the next person. They don't know what they don't know when they come to town, and it is going to be Linda's name that gets referred. 

The military community is similar in that, where somebody coming in, they don't want to have to worry about interviewing, and screening, and going on all the chat groups and starting from scratch. They're just going to go after somebody that-- Hey, this person had an amazing experience. This person felt really taken care of, they felt like they were at home when they hit the ground. It's already overwhelming and stressful enough, so how do we mitigate that a little bit and make it as stress-free and seamless as possible? I take a lot of pride in that, and I get a lot of referrals for that. 

Shaun: Jesse, you're dealing with sometimes high-stress situations too. So, not only do you have to be, A, time-efficient, get it done right now, but you also have to be that bit of a therapist as well, right? Tell me about that. Then I actually want to get into a little bit of not only being human to human, but then being there after they're settled, and what kind of network you guys can bring to help them beyond that day. Like, anybody who purchases a home, and then all of a sudden you need to know contractors, people want to do renos, plumbers, electricians, you also bring that kind of network as well, right? Jesse, talk a bit about that high-stress situation and how you make it more human. 

Jesse: Definitely, I would say on a day-to-day, I do wear a lot of hats. You've mentioned the therapist thing, well, I would just off the top of my head right now say in the last 18 months, every other listing I was doing, unfortunately, was a relationship going in separate directions, and so-- 

Shaun: Oh, wow. 

Jesse: Right, so it's very difficult, and some are more amicable than others. Some, it's just a mutual thing, and it's like, "Yes, it is what it is. We are going to go our separate directions." I find those ones, they don't really leave money on the table. It's when there's court orders that this person's not allowed to communicate-- You try to book showings or try to deal with a contract together and get everyone on the same page, but people are doing things out of spite. They leave a lot of money on the table, and it's just delay, delay, delay, and it is a lot. And that, especially for somebody like myself, I care. I actually genuinely care about my clients' well-being, and I wear a lot of that, and I do actually want things to go really smooth for them. I know there's going to be good and bad days in our jobs, but as long as my clients are happy, then I'm happy that I've represented them to my highest ability. 

I would say the therapist thing is a real thing. People's expectations, just managing that on a day-to-day is always fun. When the market has been changing as much as it has in the few past years-- COVID was insane, people's expectations there. I find sometimes when you go and do a listing appointment now, people's expectations are sometimes a little bit historic, that they did a few renos when they bout, when it was high, and they still feel it's this, and those are the houses sitting right now for a year on the market market increasing. Expectation management is also very difficult in today's market, but to go with-- As soon as they land, they get situated, it's been a great experience, they still don't know what they don't know, so me, I take a lot of pride in being that initial point of contact. Not to sway anybody in any sort of agenda, but more so just information. 

A lot of military people are used to briefing, and used to commanding and leading, and they want information allowing them to make an informed decision. I've been in that world, I've been part of those briefings, and orders, and all of that stuff, and I know what their expectations are, and even further into the weeds-- even to the point where I'll be like, "Okay, so what's your trade? What do you do in the military?" If somebody is like, "Oh, I'm a colonel in this respective trade or whatever," or "I'm a medic," or "I'm this," I already know the type of person they are. Again, that's a bit of a broad brush, but I have a pretty good understanding of how they operate, just from that world, and so I'll be like, "Okay, I need to bring this, because their expectations are going to be here." 

If you're dealing with a colonel or a general, or somebody who's in charge of a RMC, or a whole unit, or a battle group, that's going to be a lot different than if you're dealing with a master corporal who's in charge of four people in a section. And again, just where they are in their career, how many houses they've bought, their budget, their salary. All of that, it all goes into it, but being that first point of contact and setting them up for success when they hit the ground here, I take a lot of pride in that. Again, just to set them up for success. 

Shaun: Yes. Reading the room, that's a big one. 

Jesse: 100%. That was my job in the military, was reading the room and sizing people up as quick as I could, and communication. 

Shaun: Yes. Linda, with you, you've got skillsets that are vast, but when you think about Jesse's skillset and the kind of things that he is dealing with versus Ali's skillset-- You know, Mountain Town, where it's recreational, it's fun, it's vacation rentals, it's so beautiful there. Which skills-- Are you more of a military, or are you more of a vacation rental, like relaxed, sit by the lake? 

Linda: No, I would love to-- I haven't seen my country home for five months, so it's vacant. You know what? The key thing, I think, with us as REALTORS^®, we hold all these hats. The more successful you are in the business, the more hats you hold, because you're the accountant, you're the mortgage, you're the counselor, you're the director, you are in the midst of people that are going their separate ways. There's so many hats that you're wearing with everybody that you deal with, so the ideal is-- Personally, for me, I don't even bring houses into the question yet until I have to sit down with them and find out why are they selling, what is the plan here, what we're trying to do? I need to get into their mind, and then I need to figure out like a Rubik's Cube and say, "Okay, fine, which way is this whole thing going to go, and how's it going to be?" 

When you take all these avenues, the more exposure you have to the market in all categories of pricing, in a variety of different locations, the more you learn. Because you could pick up a house today down the street from me and land, bang, over there in Florida. Okay, price is different, house is different, land is different, country is different, but at the end of the day, we're dealing with a house. 

Shaun: Now, Ali, when you think about people coming through town, you have that benefit, I guess, of people coming through, they rent for a bit, you want them to fall in love with this town, right? You're not just talking about a property, you're talking about a place. It's where you were born, it's where you were raised, now you're facilitating the welcoming of these people, making sure they have a great time. That's a lot of plates you have to spin, and then you have to take care of them while they're there. Talk a bit about that. You have a personal connection with the place, plus you know contractors, plus you know all the-- You know, everybody, all the tradespeople. How important is that to you, and does it change your kind of target of time where you want them to close? Or do you just realize like, "Hey, I want them to fall in love with the place first, then thinking long-term?" Talk a bit about your experience that way. 

Ali: I think, like Linda mentioned, it's just-- First and foremost, the most important thing is to actually get to know these people, and just not make it salesy. Like, I want you to settle in, I want you to enjoy your short-term rental. If you're staying here for two or three months, I want you to enjoy it, let's get to know each other. If they're starting to talk about potentially wanting to buy a place, then cool, we can eventually start talking about that, but I'm not one to put this pressure on anyone. Most of the people that we have coming to visit us, they're just coming for a few days, up to a few weeks, and they just want to have fun. 

That being said, right now, because there is so much going on at the base of RED development-wise, a lot of people are starting to become more curious about it, and our pricing tends to be a bit better than some of the other resorts. So, yes, it's just getting to know these people, understanding their needs. If they want more information about what's going on at RED or anything that's on the MLS, obviously, I'm more than happy to discuss that with them and provide them with all the information that I can, take them on a tour, set up a virtual tour if they've already left, just stuff like that, and then, yes, just let them know-- I'm always telling all of my clients and customers and guests that I am local, I was born and raised here, and so, love taking you around, show you all the secret spots, giving all the recommendations. 

Shaun: Does that make them lean in a little more too, when they hear that? 

Ali: Totally, yes. 

Shaun: Now, they're like, "Oh, I need to know everything about the place." 

Ali: Yes, for sure. When I tell people that I was actually born and raised here, that definitely is a game-changer. You know, my dad was here forever, my mom was born here-- Like, all my family's been around forever, so being in a small community, I feel like that is definitely beneficial for me, so that's been really great. Yes, just knowing all the contractors, knowing cleaners, knowing people that can come and clean gutters out for my clients, come do lawn work, do whatever my clients need, that's been very helpful, too. Just having all of those connections already, I can tell that a lot of people very much value that. 

Shaun: Linda, do you have the same kind of thing with your network, or are there people on your team that deal with that, and it's not so much a you personal thing? Because-- I mean, Toronto, we're going from a small town to one of the biggest markets in North America, so how do you manage that when you deal with, "Oh, this broke down, that broke down"? Is it all within the buildings, or is that something that you feel you have a responsibility for? 

Linda: Yes, like goodwill returns. For me, I've coached basketball teams, baseball teams, and so I find that when you're talking about community, you want people that you're working with, you want-- A lot of times, they come and they have children, or maybe themselves, they want to play pickleball, because it's like the in-game. So, as a REALTOR^®, you need to stay involved with community, without a doubt. There's just so much more that REALTORS^® can commit to and help to create a better situation in all communities because they're involved. I think that that's a really important mentality to have in our industry, but it's not common. I'll tell you, it is not common. The industry has changed a lot, talking about social media, and AI, and this and that, and here and there, and California with the shows and whatever. The basis of our industry is helping people, helping them, helping their families, helping their lives, helping them get settled, open up a door for their future with financial investment, is where-- and I'm so pleased to be on this panel today with all of you, to be able to express that, but to support it, initiate it, and act with it. Those are so important. 

Shaun: Ali, are you listening? 

Ali: Yes-- 

Shaun: This is good. You're green, like you're eight months in. You're taking notes from Linda? 

Linda: Ali, you're amazing, because your job is hell. It's hard work-- 

Ali: Oh, yes.  

Linda: I know. Listen, I know it's hard work. 

Ali: I'm a single mom too. 

Linda: Oh, no-- Listen, I got to give you credit- 

Ali: Thank you. 

Linda: -because that world is hard work, especially if you may not have the best person that has just left or checked out. So, I get it, believe me. 

Ali: Well, my colleague-- It's me and my colleague who do it together, and she is the best human ever. I'm a single mom, so she very much works around my schedule, which has just been amazing. But to what you've said about these connections and finding short-term rentals or occupancies, or longer-term rentals for all the people that you do, it's kind of the same thing for me too. It's just like a way to put yourself out there, market in a sense. I've met a few clients through my short-term rental property management. 

We have somebody coming to stay with us-- He wants to get out of Calgary, move his family to Rossland for the lifestyle and how amazing it is here, so they're coming here doing an occupancy for-- I think it's three months, but we've been chatting a lot, and he's going to use me as his REALTOR^® when they decide to buy. So, yes, exactly like what you said previously. It's just making those connections, getting people to trust you because they can see how hard you work in this career, which is short-term rental property management, and then trust you enough to choose you as their REALTOR^®. That's the ultimate hope at the end of the day, so-- Yes. 

Shaun: It's all about relationships, yes, and being a good person, and being helpful, being all those. Because sometimes we get wrapped up in all the details of all the bylaws and so on and so forth, but at the end of the day, we're talking about a human who wants a positive human experience, so that first point of contact, I think, is really important as well. One thing, when we talk about community and creating community, a big part of that is when they're arriving, wanting them to feel welcome, wanting them to feel included right away. What are some things that you guys can do to provide that sense of comfort and welcome? Go ahead. We'll start with, of course, Dame Linda. 

Linda: Thank you. Yes, I think it's always nice-- especially if they're coming on a flight or something, I tend to have a case of water, believe it or not, even though they're heavy, because it's really important, which-- I don't know, it's just a habit, I've done it for years. Aside from all of that, what's really important is to outline-- I have a package, it's kind of a guide. There's one for Toronto, there's one for Mississauga, and what it does is it shows all the necessary things that they may need. That would be, for instance, utility companies, all the contact names, the local schools around, the Board of Education, the city amenities, and so on. Because they don't know all these, and it's kind of difficult if you've got to sit down and start going through Google to learn them all. A big thing is the schools, without a doubt. I think trying to look at all that, obviously, the typical-- I have customized notepads with pens and so on, and I put those on the table. One big one, which is a big plus, honestly, they love it, is a fruit basket. They love it, and I'm really a health-crazy person, so-- 

Shaun: Awesome. That's great. What about you, Ali? 

Ali: From a short-term rental perspective, when guests arrive, we make sure that we have welcome books available at all of our units, so all of our Alpine homes up at RED. A book full of activities, suggested restaurants, 911 numbers to call if you're in trouble, anything like that. We're also constantly glued to our 24/7 emerg phone, so we're just having constant communication with the guests that are staying at our units. Lots of questions always roll in, and just making sure to keep the communication open-ended, and advise them, and give them input for just local recommendations and all of that. That's with respect to the short-term rental side of things. 

Then, of course, when people are actually purchasing vacation properties, I am letting them know, like I said previously, that I'm local. I know where all the secret spots are, I know the good restaurants. I know basically everything behind the scenes in Rossland, I know all the rumors and gossip, so-- 

Shaun: Very important. 

Ali: Yes. Basically, just communication with people that are buying here, buying vacation properties here is so important, and making it personable and actually taking them out. Not just texting, being there in person and having that personal touch. 

Shaun: So good. How about you, Jess? 

Jesse: Yes, biggest thing is kind of giving a bit of a map brief. When they hit the ground here, same thing with some water, coffee, sit them down, do a nice formal introduction, because a lot of times, it's just been over phone or email. If they're overseas, we're dealing with a time change. They get in, I have a buyer's guide for them. Obviously, they're coming in to buy, so I give them a buyer's guide with all that info, lawyers, lenders. At that point, they've already been pre-approved, but lawyers, lenders, inspectors, school zones, amenities, support networks, stuff on the base, unit-specific, as well as resource centers for their family. Amenities for kiddos, arenas, pools, all of that, because a lot of the families' kids are into all sorts of sports, so I find those questions, I get a lot. 

Then just color-coded maps with all the neighborhoods and all of that, because again, they don't know what they don't know. Just give them all of those guides-- We've formulated those over the last few years, and tweak them as things change, and always improve. Again, it's just information. I always just say, it is relationship-building, but if you can be that point of contact that they always call or that they depend on, you're just looking at that mid and long-term case development, and that's where not everybody understands it, where they want instant results today. I would just say, if you want to be successful at real estate, it's all planting that seed today, germinating, and just that second and third-order effect for what I do today will pay off for both myself and my clients. But a lot of people who want instant results today, I would say, find a new job. 

Ali: Right on. 

Shaun: Yes. It's all about the long game. 

Jesse: Yes. 

Dame Linda: It's a grind. 

Ali: It's a grind, yes. 

Shaun: Well, listen, guys, this has been an incredible conversation. I cannot thank you enough. We've learned so much. We get these amazing perspectives from all corners of our country, almost-- It's a big country, but you know what I'm saying, coast to coast, but not to Newfoundland. Newfoundland is-- By the way, for anybody who's talking about coast to coast, it doesn't stop at Halifax, okay? 

Jesse: Yes--  

Shaun: Make sure you include Newfoundland when you're doing that. You know any weather people, they always go, "Coast to coast from Vancouver, Victoria, to Halifax." I'm like, "Ah--" Anyway, thank you so much. Thank you for joining us on REAL TIME. 

Ali: Thank you. 

Linda: Thank you. 

Ali: That was awesome. 

Jesse: Thank you, guys. It's been a pleasure. Nice to meet everybody. 

Linda: Yes, absolutely. Thank you. 

Shaun: Are you kidding me? What an amazing conversation. So many perspectives, things that I didn't even know about. I mean, with Jesse talking about that short window of having to purchase in such a short time under all that pressure. You know, someone like Ali who's out there, she's such an amazing-- born and bred in the town. Who better to welcome you into that market and to help you find your vacation home? And of course, Dame Linda Pinizzotto, she had some stories to tell, whether it be movie stars, or athletes. Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Raptors, the Toronto Maple Leafs, she's worked with them all. What a great conversation. I hope you guys enjoyed that. If you liked this episode, please tell us by giving us a rating or review our preferred podcast platform. And as always, we appreciate it. REAL TIME is brought to you by the Canadian Real Estate Association, CREA, and the production courtesy of Alphabet Creative. Thank you so much. My name is Shaun Majumder, and we'll see you next time on REAL TIME.